P07: What's the verdict?
April 1, 2007
As before, post your comments about Persuasion 2007 here, and also please let us know if you are familiar with the novel so that we can compare the reactions of those who have read it and those who have not–we won’t give you a hard time!
There also is a pinned thread for ongoing debate and discussion at the Molland’s Community.
ETA: Yes, we changed the title of the post (got our naming conventions a bit mixed up). And don’t forget, the 1997 adaptation of Emma starring Kate Beckinsale will be broadcast Friday night to finish up Jane Austen Season; but nobody’s that excited about it because we’ve mostly all seen it! La!
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Have just finished watching ‘Persuasion’. I did like the leads (and thought Mr Elliot was rather yummy, although I would trim his sideburns if he was mine) but not too keen on the other members of the Elliot family (and am just awaiting an email from a fellow Janeite to whinge about the lack chemisettes and peculiar garb). The locations are nice (yes, it’s BATH! Not Dublin). But the screenplay is a mess, things are moved around strangely. For example, the wonderful dialogue with Captain Harville at the White Hart about men and women is moved to Lyme and she’s speaking to Captain Benwick. Eh? And I thought the idea of having voiceovers by Anne to explain things a bit sloppy. How ill is Harriet Smith if she rushes around Bath to chat to Anne? And all that running! Tsk, tsk. And what was Wenthworth doing outside in just his shirtsleeves at the end. And must we explain to screnwriters what an ‘entailed property’ is? Sigh. And the music choices…oh, vey! And was there some sort of memo that said that both MP and Pers. end with a waltz? Groan. And talking of memos. when I saw that scene with Wentworth and Harvile getting soaked on purpose on the Cob (why? Wool takes ages to dry), they seemed to be channeling Andrew Davis. At least there were no bathtubs.
Verdict: Not very impressed. Not at all. I adore the book. In many ways it is my favourite.
I’ve only just started reading the novel, but this made me want to read on.
Sally Hawkins was wonderful as Anne and Rupert Penry-Jones was fantastic. I found Mary really annoying but she might be like that in the book – I don’t know yet.
Probably the best of the ITV lot – would have been 10 times better with the same cast but produced by the BBC.
Still loved it though.
I hope that as I’m writing this, someone else is posting, as I wouldn’t want mine to be the first review read!
I have read Persuasion, finished a second reading of it a week ago but I must say it’s definitely one of my least favourite stories – a somewhat unpopular opinion, I know!
The main thing about this production? I hated the filming style. It was horrendous! I felt dizzy thirty seconds in, thanks to the camera following Anne around Kellynch. The closecloseclose-ups were ridiculous, I didn’t need to see up the actor’s noses, and I found myself straining to see around the heads of the actors filling the screen to try and see something of the background!
As for the adaptation of the book, I was quite happy in general, although a few differences were glaring. Wentworth buys Kellynch for Anne?? Mrs Harville was non-existant, and Mrs Smith was very mobile for a cripple…
I though Anthony Head was superb, as was the actress playing Mary Musgrove, she provided a chuckle or two! Sally Hawkins was wonderful and she and Rupert Penry-Jones played off each other very well.
I’m not sure whether I’m being unnecessarily harsh on it really. A couple of my favourite scenes were either changed or not even there, so that made me take against it. For the one that was expected to be the ‘best’, I actually enjoyed it less than Northanger Abbey.
Sorry guys!
I liked the bit where the captains got wet – must be some fabulous outtakes of that scene somewhere. All in all, I quite enjoyed it until the last ten minutes, where it just got silly. Perhaps the silly part started when Anne charged out of the recital after Wentworth. And as Kathleen says, towards the end they more or less abandon the book – if you know the book, Miss Smith shouldn’t be out for a walk; and if you don’t – what a lot of exposition to fit into one hasty speech. And the jogging. And the house! I know he’d done well with prize money, but did naval captains really earn that much?
I liked the casting. I thought Anne looked right at the start, but in my mind, she’d recovered her looks more by Lyme, whereas in this adaption she always looked a bit stressed. I also liked that they used so much of the dialogue from the books, and kept so many of the minor details. I agree that it was a pity they moved the speech about constancy to Lyme, and I could have done with a little less of the Captain staring soulfully at Anne during the period when he was meant to be disliking her. And to be really nit-pickety, those really bright-white teeth that Mrs Clay had always look so anachronistic in a period drama.
But still, no adaption of a book is perfect, and overall I enjoyed it.
I love the novel, so settled down to the adaption with trepidation… Surprisingly, I enjoyed the story, but I feel that in places they strayed too far from the novel. I didn’t get the same sense of the strained relationship between Anne and her family, and was disappointed by the ending as well – Anne running all over Bath, unchaperoned? Only to launch herself into Wentworth’s arms in front of her brother-in-law? A disappointing modern touch, certainly.
An enjoyable way to spend my evening, but I think I’d rather have read the novel!
Why does ITV feel they have to “improve” Jane Austen? Persuasion is my favourite book, one I’ll happily reread at regular intervals. Tonight ITV started pretty well but moving Anne’s discussion of men’s versus women’s constancy in love back to Lyme Regis, and without Captain Wentworth overhearing,completelty warped the plot and, for me, it was downhill from then on!! This was such a waste of a good cast;so many of the characters were mere cardboard cut outs! For instance, Captain Wentworth is not just a good looking clothes horse, he has a mind and interesting opinions, as does Anne – that’s the reason they are such a good match. As for the running through the streets and THE KISS….the last 10 minutes were a complete joke. This was a Georgette Heyer production of Jane Austen………the old BBC production was so much better and even that does not come close to the the original.
P.S. Hilary avoided Mansfield Park No way could I contemplate Billie Piper as Fanny. From a gothic point of view Northanger Abbey came closer to the mark – Alison enjoyed the gothic fantasy sequences – and reference to ‘The Monk’
Personally I dont think it matched the classic Ciaran Hinds version. The hand held camera work at the start nearly made me feel sea sick. Very distracting and unnecessary.The director and cameraman were like children in a sweetshop trying everything. The final scenes of Anne running through Bath were ludicrous. I could just about cope with the first dash but when she had to run back to the house – well I had to stop myself laughing.
I found Tobias Menzies as William Ellot far more charismatic than Wentworth! which clearly shouldnt be the case but then he is a truly fantastic actor.
The close ups on Anne became tiresome in the end. It was ok the first 3 or 4 times but then became predictable. Sally Hawkins was a good Anne and RPJ an adequate Wentworth but I didnt find a huge amount of chemistry (the press reports made me expect more).
Some of the supporting actors overacted like mad which again was distracting.I found it too much style over substence.
Good things first. Sally Hawkins is a wonderful actress; she wins my Jane Austen Season best actress award. The locations were lovely, and the weather was realistically English. It was nice to see Bath playing the part of Bath. It was fun seeing Rupert Giles (Anthony Head/Sir Walter Elliot) and the Borg Queen (Alice Krige/Lady Russell) in a costume drama. Rupert Penry-Jones was better than I expected. And Mary Musgrove was a hoot.
Now the bad things. It left out one of my favorite scenes in all of Jane Austen’s novels: when young Walter Musgrove climbs on his Aunt Anne and Captain Wentworth lifts him off (Chapter 9). The climactic letter scene was botched, and Anne briefly turns into Billie Piper and starts running all over the place. We learn to explicitly too early about Wentworth’s feelings for Anne. Mrs. Smith’s revelations about William Elliot are absurdly rushed. Sally Hawkins has a superb face, but there were too many long, lingering full-screen shots of her face (like those annoying lingering scenes of nothing but Liv Tyler’s face in LOTR).
In some ways, it was the best of the three new adaptations, but since Persuasion is my favorite of the novels, and because the adaptation deviated from the novel in a few unpardonable ways, it inevitably disappointed.
Apart from that silly kiss, I thought it was very well done. I found Sally Hawkins very likable and believable, but I think Amanda Root will always be my Anne. Sir Walter was excellent, as were Mary and Elizabeth. I enjoyed Rupert Penry-Jones’s Wentworth, but there was something about him that was a bit too pretty boy-ish.
A bit off topic, but I watched a bit of the making of programme (I turned it off because it wasn’t very informative) and was so disgusted by the people behind Mansfield Park- they seemed to take no consideration of the context and immediately wrote Austen’s Fanny off as a completely unappealing character who needed to be “modernised” by someone like Billie Piper. As a quiet, shy girl myself, I find such Fanny-bashing quite insulting. Such people shouldn’t have been allowed to touch Austen’s work.
I liked it. Not as much as I enjoyed Northanger Abbey, and I agree that the letter scene was quite destroyed in my mind (In the book, as soon as Wentworth dropped the pen and we learnt that he was listening and reacting to Anne and Harville’s conversation I was grinning like an idiot – not so with this adaption.) However, I think that the leads were very good – but as an ardent lover of Rupert Penry-Jones I am somewhat biased – and the acting in general was well done. Some changes were inexcusable, but when trying to cut something as complex and amazing as Persuasion in 90 minutes we have to expect some cutting of corners – I only wish that they hadn’t touched the letter scene quite so drastically.
The Good:
+ Sally Hawkins as Anne – she is a brilliant actress. I thought she was particularly good in the early scenes when she believes Wentworth dislikes her and is courting Louisa Musgrove. You could feel her pain (well, I could).
+ Anthony Head as Sir Walter – wonderfully conceited and self-centred.
+ There was some beautiful cinematography; the scene where William Elliot proposes to Anne was particularly beautifully shot, with the candlelight in the background providing an almost magical atmosphere. I also liked the penultimate scene (the [whisper it] kiss!) where the background noise faded away and all we could hear was Anne and Wentworth.
The Bad:
- The last scene. The whirly camera bit wasn’t so bad, but when it pulled away to show Anne and Wentworth waltzing on the lawn of Kellynch? Oh dear!
- This ain’t your mama’s Austen. There were liberties taken with the story, but I guess that is inevitable in a 1hr 45min version for the ADD generation. Having said that, I guess I am part of that generation, as I don’t know whether I would have made it through a six hour special with every last detail of the book brought to full filmic life!
- Some of the ‘modern’ style camera work (esp. when Anne was running along the Royal Crescent) spoiled things somewhat as it detracted from some of the beautiful shots in the production.
The Ugly
)
~ William Elliot’s teeth (proper English teeth!
I think it was by far the best of the bunch, and I will definitely watch it again. Sally Hawkins for Queen of England, I say!
I completely agree about William Elliot (Menzies) having more charisma than Penry Jones. I found Wentworth a bit wet and lifeless and wasnt a patch on Ciaran Hinds version.
I also prefer Amanda Root to Sally Hawkins but my main concern was the end which was so silly. Quite laughable- couldnt they see how daft it was! My whole family burst out laughing which in this case wasnt a good thing!
I really enjoyed this, especially because they used so much of the original dialogue, but the fiddling with the end…
When they made Anne talk to Captain Benwick about constancy at Lyme, and didn’t have Wentworth hear it! I just gaped soundlessly. Nevertheless, I hoped that, since so much of that conversation was cut, they might perhaps have placed the rest of it in its rightful place at the end with Captain Harville, so as to make the debate about constancy a bit of a theme throughout the programme.
No such luck. The end was rushed. BAH. What on earth did they use the first part of the original ending for?! Austen got rid of it for a damn good reason. Mrs Smith’s walking and hurried explaination was awful, as was Anne’s running.
It’s a shame that they ruined the end so much, as the rest of it was a generally good adaptation. Sally Hawkins was wonderful, and Rupert Penry-Jones extremely good. I think all of these ITV versions serve as a good introduction to Austen, but are not the definitive (or are even close to…) versions, though I wasn’t expecting them to be, as 2 hours with ad breaks really does limit what can be done.
I thought that because there was the ‘falling off a log and being picked up by Wentworth’ scene, then the helping Anne into the carriage moment wouldn’t be included. It was there but so unsubtle. Wentworth had a word with Sophie but then he all but dragged Anne by the arm, hoisted her up and dumped her on the back of the carriage. There was no gentle realisation by Anne that ‘he had put her there’.
I don’t hate this adaptation but I love the 1995 version and this was so different that it’s hardly comparing like with like. Although these 2 hour (with ads) ITV adaptations seem short, the 1995 version is only 1 hr 40 min. It’s amazing what they did in that time.
Question for those who have seen this: Is it more understandable/followable for a novice than the Amanda Root version? When I saw that Persuasion when it came out I loved JA but hadn’t read all her works yet and it didn’t make sense on my first view; I couldn’t always pick up what they were talking about. Thereafter I became quite a Janite, but friends that want to see another Jane movie can never understand Persuasion and I try to explain it so they’ll like it and all, but I was wondering if this version at least is ok for novices?
I must be the only one who saw Persuasion 1995 before reading the book and didn’t have any problems understanding the story. Oh well.
Anyway, I can’t believe I ordered all of these movies. MP was decent, but mostly just in comparison to the Rozema version. Northanger Abbey was too Andrew Davies for my taste and this version of my beloved Persuasion sounds as if it’s going to make me cry.
PS… I meant that this version of Persuasion will make me cry but NOT in a good way.
I never watch these dramatisations and compare with the original book. I see little point as it will drive you mad. However as a TV drama it failed on a number of counts. The tension was sorely lacking and the hand held camera work was very heavy handed and ill used. The final scenes or the JA Marathon (it felt like it) was one of the silliest scenes I’ve ever seen in any classic series.
The revelation about William Elliot was very rushed, if you didnt know the book you’d have been bemused!. William Elliot’s character (Tobias Menzies)actually comes across extremely well and shows some passion. Wentworth on the other hand seemed so passive that I couldnt warm to him.
Other than the excellent Menzies the supporting cast were hit or miss. Anthony Head was good and I really enjoyed Julia Davis performance. Rosamund Stephen as Henrietta drove me up the wall. An awful OTT performance.
The early reviews suggested a classic but unfortunately it doesnt come near the quality of the 1995 version.
Way to go, Fanny supporters! Oh, this is an Anne thread? Oooops. I can’t see the adaptations for a while, being in the USA, but I still have hope (except for MP, since the producers were clueless), but can’t wait to see Giles as Sir Wan… er, Walter.
Julie P.,
I had never read the book prior to seeing P2, and I had no problem following it. I did know some of the background, but not the whole story. DH watched with me. He was completely uninitiated and had no problem understanding P2 either.
I am so disappointed to read P3′s reviews. It looks like ITV’s Season of Austen has been a big bust. I’ll watch on PBS in November, but I’m not going stash any money away to purchase the DVDs.
Alas, given the reviews thus far, it is unfortunate that ITV chose to make these adaptations–I don’t see other adaptations being made for quite some time.
The way things are going that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Perhaps it will inspire some Janeite filmmaker to do it right. It would probably have to be an indie thing to get around the apparent requirements for Hollywood and general-audience television.
I don’t think that the Austen season was the huge failure that everyone here seems to think it was. Yes, liberties were taken with the texts, but that is inevitable when converting a long book into 100 minutes of film. I read a lot of authors, and the crimes committed upon some books in the conversion to screen is enough to make you give up on film altogether! With the exception of MP, which I felt had been edited to the point of incomprehensibility, the stories survived the transition to the small screen, and the actors did a good job (even in MP – I think the adaptation was to blame, rather than the acting). I enjoyed watching all three, and if other people did, and it turns them on to the works of Jane Austen, then so much the better. There is so much trash on TV and in the cinema these days that anything that engages the brain is something to be grateful for!
I really enjoyed this. I thought actress portraying Anne was brilliant and captured her perfectly. Henry was brilliant and gorgeous (he does brood exceedingly well!)
I agree the camera work did make you feel dizzy at both the start and the end.
The only downside for me was as others have said- the end. When Anne is in conversation with Benwick and Wentworth is listening whilst writing a letter is my fave part. When he rushes back in and gives her the letter in which he admits to still loving her is in my mind one of the most beautiful scenes in any book and I was disappointed that they felt the need to change it. However I did enjoy it and will be buying this along with NA when they get released.
The version of Persuaion last night was appalling. Anne was too mushy – she is a reliable, confident person who happens to have an unfullfilled love for Wentworth. Wentworth also has far more go in him than depicted here. The production was too slow, missed vital bits of the plot and changed others without obvious improvement. Anne rushing about Bath was daft – even in the 21st century. In the book Anne realises she is still loved by Wentworth when he comes to Bath.
And the part of Mrs Smith was reduced to trivia. Cousin Elliot’s abuse of her previously was totally ignored and he doesn’t propose to Anne in the book. He is there to remove Mrs. Clay from the scene. I agree with the other comments. It is not a patch on the BBC’c version.
The scenes at Lime were laughable. Oh dear, the weather was terrible for filming. Just how wet did everyone get?
Anthony Head was excellent. The other actors were very good – it was the script that let them down.
I thought Anne was good – just as I would imagine her and RPJ was gorgeous…. but unfortunately there was not enough dialogue to develop his character. The first 60 minutes worked well and then…. oh dear…. the script writers went completely ‘off piste’ with Anne running around all over Bath… i’m surprised she looked so intact and not completely knackered, poor dear. Sadly, they also completely down played the letter, ‘you pierce my soul’ was mumbled out and almost lost…
In summing up: had me hooked until the last 20 minutes. Maybe it will improve on me with time…
I’ve seen the Amanda Root version and loved it, so I wasn’t expecting much from this one, but for the first three-quarters of it I was pleasantly surprised.
As with last week’s NA, they managed to capture the essence of the story very well but, like most here have already mentioned, the last quarter was dreadful – and for no apparent reason. Surely it can’t have been time constraints; they’d managed to condense the first part without straying too far from the novel. Anyway, I was shaking my head at Anne dashing round Bath like that.
I had to laugh at someone’s complaint earlier about William Elliot’s bad teeth, because I didn’t notice them, only Sally Hawkins’ orthodontics.
Didn’t notice the hand-held camera effects either, but the background generator noise on all of the scenes on the Cobb drove me crazy.
Better than Mansfield Park but not as good as Northanger Abbey.
I know most will disagree with me, but I didn’t like P07 at all. Neither did I like Anne Elliot in this adaptation. Amanda Root played it to perfection, but however good an actress Sally Hawkins may be (and I have never seen her in anything else, so can’t say), the way she played Anne Elliot reminded me of a scullery maid, who had dropped her master’s favourite plate… (and awaits scolding/caning). For most of the film she looked as if she was going to faint any moment, she hardly talked and there was no sparkle in her spirit – which after all, made Captain Wentworth fall in love with her in the first place.
And needless to say, when it comes to characters saying important lines in different places and to different people than in the book, I could hardly keep my countenance… and as for the running through Bath to find Wentworth…. totally ridiculous. Especially with Mrs Smith running alongside her to tell her about Walter Elliot. If she can run that well, why does she need a nurse to get around in her rooms?
Offered as the best of the new adaptations – I don’t think so. I much preferred NA, and as for Persuasion – the Amanda Root version will be the one I will continue to watch.
Erika
Mrs Smith runs????? Oh my. That Nurse Rook is GOOD!
I must say, I disagree with pretty much all the reviews above! I felt that this one was very well done, far superior to the others three in the season in quality, for the most part. It did seem to have been filmed entirely through a grey filter though – it was all very bleak and melancholy looking, as befitted the story. The actors had a lot more gravity and dignity in this one.
It had Anthony Head (or Buffy fame, as Giles) as the father of Anne (the lead female). His character was very arrogant and snobbish. Anne was played well, with restraint, but still retaining character and the sympathy of the viewer, whereas in the older BBC one (which I admit I’m only half way through), I really want her to grow some spine and stop moping silently around! Captain Wentworth is younger than in the BBC one, and quite likeable.
I haven’t read the book in this case, so I don’t know how well in the adaptation was done, but I was left somewhat surprised at one of the younger girls marrying a different Captain with whom she had not previously interacted, having been flirting with Captain Wentworth for ages. That appeared completely out of the blue, and I feel there must be more on that in the book. The kiss scene was somewhat drawn out – it would have worked better if it hadn’t taken so long for their lips to meet!
Now, I really must finish the BBC one – it is not nearly as captivating as last night’s ITV one. It is much more difficult to follow and get into, and the sound and picture quality are quite poor on the DVD. He pictures is bitty, grainy and washed out, and the sound balance is too quiet for the speech, and often doesn’t match the picture.
First, I haven’t read the book yet! I will do soon, as I’ve just finished reading Northanger Abbey, which I started reading before the programme last week! I saw the BBC version of Persuasion and thought it lacked something (a little on the dull side too), but last nights Persuasion was really taken by. It was fresh, well shot, and the actors did a good job. I very rarely cry at TV, but that made me shed a few tears, it had some touching parts. You really felt the heartache Anne was going though. I know it wasn’t perfect for some of you JA fans, but all in all, I was happy with it and I could watch it again and again. It was so romantic!
It makes me sad to see so many people writing off the season, especially those who haven’t seen them all yet- don’t knock it before you’ve tried it, etc etc! You might be pleasantly surprised… or you might not, but give it a try first.
I liked Persuasion in general, and I have read the book, although I’ll admit I’m due a re-read. There were lots of bits missed out or changed, but I’m inclined to put them to one side and look at the bigger picture- and I think this version did mostly capture the spirit of the book. I found myself so frustrated by her family (Anthony Head was fantastic- ‘who?’) and I thought the tension and sense of ‘unfinished business’ between Anne and Captain Wentworth was well-done. The running round Bath scene was… er…. a tad anachronistic, but it didn’t offend me as much as it probably should have done; I thought it captured the feeling of time running out for them both… Neither Ann or Wentworth were perfect- he was very brooding and tortured but a tad weak on the character side and I agree she didn’t really have that ‘sparkle’- a friend who hadn’t read the book told me she couldn’t quite understand why Wentworth would fall in love with her in the first place.
The more I analyse it the more flaws I find, but overall I thought it was nicely done and I’d watch it again! Better than Mansfield Park, not as good as Northanger Abbey.
I have read the book twice. I give credit to the cast and crew, they are a beautiful lot. I think the above says a lot about what was wrong with the chemistry between Anne, her family and Wentworth. So I’ll focus on something else.
1. I thought it most improper for women (or at least I thought so) to run around in 18th C. Britain.
2. Anne’s skirts were too short most of the time. In those days, until the 1920s, womens’s skirts went down to the ankles as men (and women) had an obsession with covering table legs i.e. womens’ legs.
3. They spent too much to much time on Anne and her journal writing instead of other worthy details in the book.
4. Good finishing touches I guess,
a) I must confess, I wanted them to kiss but it did take too long for it to happen.
b) Although in the book Wentworth didn’t buy out/ take Anne back to Kellynch, it’s a nice touch as a wedding present. I’m not sure whether he’s supposed to actually have bought out Kellynch or whether he managed to persuade his sister sophy and her husband to let them spend their honeymoon at Kellynch.
5. I thought it would have made Anne look more blooming if they gave her more make-up. She’s too pale, even after the visit to Lyme. Wentworth began to notice her partly because he noticed Elliot admiring Anne, partly because he noticed Elliot admiring a women who was blooming as an elegant woman again, a pretty woman he knew from 8 years ago.
6. The letter was too short. There isn’t as much context as there is in the book.
7. Forgive me, but I have to say it…how is Rupert ‘sex on legs?’ (quoting producer for P07)? He looks good looking enough from a certain angle but I’m sorry, he’s not as good looking as e.g. Richard Armitage or Toby Stephens. I suppose I prefer dark looking men to blond men.
Most of us have difficulty in accepting scenes which differ from those we have in our mind’s eye, and screen versions of much loved stories rarely match up to expectations.Therefore I didn’t hold out too much hope for this production. In fact it’s the third adaptation of Persuasion I’ve been disappointed with – 71, 95, and now 07. As many people have already said, the last ten minutes were quite bizarre, but other scenes important to the telling of the story were glossed over – in particular the meeting with Mr. Elliott on the steps at Lyme, of which much more could have been made. I’ve always considered this to be the turning point in the story and signals Wentworth’s renewal of love for Anne.Perhaps a few close-ups here would have been appropriate.
And when is anyone going to be brave enough to include the ‘Little Walter’ episode?
I just hope that someone some day will make a really good adaptation of the story before I’m too old to care!
I was extremely disappointed in this production and didnt feel there was much on screen chemistry between the two leads. Penry Jones in particular seemed quite blank, like an empty vessel standing there. No charisma at all. Being handsome isnt enough.
Sally Hawkins did well with her scenes and I felt for her having to run about like an idiot at the end. The production lacked any dramatic tension and the camerawork was uninspiring. Far too much time was wasted on close ups of her writing her journal instead of filming far more important scenes.
The supporting cast were good, Anthony Head, Tobias Menzies and Alice Krige in particuar were excellent but werent enough to save this drama for me.
Nicola, furniture legs were covered during the Victorian era. Persuasion takes place during the Regency era. Queen Victoria wasn’t even born until JA had been dead for a year and a half.
As for the running, Elizabeth Bennet is an active girl and she runs a lot, as it says in P&P. Anne Elliot, however, is a more sedate character, and the thought of her running is not appealing.
As for Rupert being sex on legs, I will have to differ with you there. I think he’s gorgeous. I normally prefer dark men too, but when I saw Rupert in Spooks, I fell for him, hook, line and sinker!
I feel I’m repeating a lot of what’s already been said but I also hated the camera work, the excessive time on the journal and close ups of Anne’s face which was laboured to death. The run at the end of the production made my husband laugh for ages so maybe they should have called it a comedy. When she had to run back for the second lap even I started to shake with laughter.
I also had a big problem with Rupert Penry Jones. Now I knew he was there mainly because he looked pretty (infact the producer virtually said he was picked because he turned heads!) but he lacked any screen presence and didnt convince me in the slightest that he loved Anne. He was very wooden. Ciaran Hinds is in a different league to him.
The 1995 version still stands up extremely well against this version. I watched it only last week and there really is no comparison. Amanda Root was also my preferred Anne but a round of applause to Sally for enduring the director’s madcap ideas. However I would say that Tobias Menzies made a much better job of William Elliot than Sam West. Anthony Head was a very entertaining Sir Walter but some of the other supporting cast such as Rosamund Stephen struggled.
If anyone asks me which version to purchase I’d not hesitate in saying the 1995 version.
Well speaking as the token male here it seems I have to say I enjoyed it the most of all the adaptations and it’s the first one I’ve felt compelled to say something about. I enjoyed it, very much. Most of that I felt was the performance of Sally Hawkins who was superb. She was simply mesmerising. I agree with the producer of the show in the interview afterwards on ITV3 she’s going to be a big star.
As for the story itself, well they took a fair few liberties with the story but I guess they concentrated on what interested them and probably what they thought would interest the viewer most too, namely the romance. It’s interesting comparing it with the 1997 Persuasion which I thought the ending was more uh, realistic with Anne going to sea with Wentworth than Wentworth buying(?) Kellynch!
Some things I thought they did better, some things I thought this was better, mainly the performance of the very attractive Ms Hawkins which I had me in tears by the end. Not that I’d ever admit of this to any of my male friends. Heavens, no.
I did enjoy it, but not as much as I had hoped. It started off promisingly but the final scenes (let us forget the soppy ending) were a rushed mess. It was a big big mistake to replace the letter writing scene, as the replacement scenes were far more contrived and anybody who hadn’t read the book I think could have been left feeling somewhat dazed and confused – actually the hand held camera shots probably left a lot of people feeling dazed.
The acting was generally good – Sally Hawkins in particular and Rupert Penry-Jones brooded well and did what he could with the script. Julia Davis as Elizabeth reminded me of a pantomime dame with that dodgy wig (well I assume it was a wig, bit of a funny colour) and the actress who played Mary (Amanda Hale) had obviously studied in depth Sophie Thompson’s performance in P2. Anthony Head was very good.
I bought the DVD today to add to my ironing collection, which is more than I did after watching the other two, so it definitely wasn’t all bad, but my general verdict is that it could have been better.
I’m really surprised that so many people dislike it! Persuasion is my favourite book and I really enjoyed this adaptation. The ending was silly, but it was fun to watch nonetheless; though I perhaps would have preferred less running and the letter unaltered. Although bits were left out, and some unnecessary bits put in, I think the general spirit of the book was captured. I thought the cast was fantastic: especially RPJ!! I thought he was a marvellous Captain Wentworth – though I’ve been a fan of his from Spooks, so maybe I’m more biased towards him. I think Anthony Head was wonderfully snobbish and Mr Elliot was sufficiently smarmy. All in all, I really liked it and will probably be ordering the DVD fairly soon.
According to the DVD the feature length is ’92 mins approx’ – no wonder it felt rushed. It’s awful to think that nearly a quarter of the viewing time was taken up with ads.
Deep joy – they managed to fit in the waltz – for a few moments I suspected we were stuck in 1815 – but never fear!
And Wentworth buys Kellynch – hurrah! (entailed estate – how does that work then?) but never mind, with Anne’s bottom lip quivering and her short breathy gasps taking the place of sharp Austen dialogue – who cares? Not I, not I, while young ladies run through the streets of Bath and the plot is cut and pasted. This is 2007 and we know a thing or two about life that Miss Austen never dreamed of.
So which was the winner – a piping Billie? The bathtub in the field… or the running invalid? So difficult to choose. I’ll watch the next one too blind drunk to care.
Helen- LOL! Bring on the claret!
I have read Persuasions many times and the Amanda Root, Ciaran Hind version of Persuasion is my all time favourite film – which I have watched many times, so it seems to me almost pointless to try and do another, inferior, remake of Persuasion. With the exception of the scenes at Lyme Cobb, the direction of this latest ITV version was vastly inferior.
The actors who played Anne Elliott and Captain Wentworth however were very good, but most of the remaining cast (especially Mary and Elizabeth) were very poor.
This production seemed, at times, to be a ‘Persuasion for Dummies’ version, with the constant explanations of the text.
The main saving grace for this adaptation of Persuasions is that it was far better than their ludicrous Mansfield Park (I have’t seen Northanger Abbey).
If it was the intention of the production team to pare the novel down to the love story (as we were told) why then was it necessary cut out some of those lovely moments from the book?
eg:
‘Asking his partner whether Miss Elliot ever danced.’
“I beg your pardon madam, this is your seat.”
The Little Walter incident.
‘He gave her a mometary glance.’(on the steps at Lyme)
‘You will stay and nurse her.’(at Lyme)
The scene at the White Hart in Bath when Mr. Elliot is seen outside with Mrs. Clay, and later when Charles tries to persuade everyone to go to the play.
“You did not use to like cards, but time makes many changes”.
The inclusion of all, or even some of the above would have helped to improve the chemistry between the two leads. As it was, the poor captain had precious little to work with.
Are you listening film makers? There are plenty of us here who would be only too willing to advise you in the future!
I’ll have to comment after I’ve seen the movie, but I have seen some clips and music videos. I think I’ll like it despite the changes even though the 95 version will be my favorite. I for one liked the new MP as well as my two sisters. I’ve read the book several times and love it. MP1 is my favorite, but we didn’t get Edmund and Fanny really getting together. They jumped from his Miss Crawford confession scene to the wedding. I know MP3 wasn’t like the book totally, but enough of the book was still there to make me happy. I would probably feel differently if I didn’t have any MP1 to watch.
The ITV season has been rather disappointing. They had a feeling of being churned out on a conveyer belt with not enough care in the script. If you are going to do these in 90 minutes you have to have the best script imaginable.
Persuasion was ruined by a number of things. Firstly the terrible camera work. The DOP and director messed up here big time. Its as if they were trying to hard to show it was a modern adaptation. Hand held camera work has its place e.g cop shows but it needs careful consideration for a classic drama. This felt like students had got hold of a camera and were messing around.
Then there was the ill conceived running scene towards the end of the drama – this idea should have been thrown out at the earliest stages of script development. I’m amazed noone said anything. It made the whole final section a joke and the atmosphere was completely lost. The endless close up shots of Anne became very repetative and I’m surprised one or two weren’t cut from the final edit. It wasted a lot of time that could have been better served exploring plot lines that never got off the ground. The way Anne found out about William Elliot poor character was laughable.
The two lead actors were adequate but I wasnt as bowled over by Sally Hawkins (Anne)as I thought. I’d read so much about her and the director/producer were so infatuated by her that I was expecting more. She wasnt as good as Amanda Root in the 1995 version. I really didnt feel her pain. Rupert Penry Jones (Wentworth) left me completely cold. He wasnt really asked to do much but the few scenes he had of any emotion were flat. I didnt feel we the viewer connected with him at all. He’s a good looking guy but thats as much as I can say about him. Ciaran Hinds is a fine actor and you really feel his “presence” in the 1995 version. Its like comparing a man with a boy.
Some of the supporting actresses were terrible but you have to blame the director for not getting subtler performances from them.
Anthony Head (Walter) and Tobias Menzies (William) I liked a lot but these are two experienced actors who can probably direct themselves. They were the only two who I thought pitched the performances right. Anyway whats done is done. ITV at least tried to dip a toe in the classic market. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
My God, some of you come off as a bunch of snobs. Get a life!!
Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m feeling told-off.
And I think your feeling told-off is spot on. Certain other Austen sites would immediately have deleted either the Told-off-er or various Told-off-ees, depending on the whim of the Board honcho.
I think that it’s entirely appropriate for us to express our opinions here, SINCE YOU ASKED WHAT WE THOUGHT. Whether we come off as snobbish or not is personal opinion. I haven’t seen the new movie yet, but am impressed that most of the posters above seem to have read the book and have noted specific differences.
Oh, but Deb, it’s so much more fun to poke ‘em with a sharp stick. But then I’m easily entertained.
You know, thinking about Sylvia M’s comment above – that she might just like this adaptation once she sees it despite the changes – I wonder if others who haven’t had an opportunity to see it yet either, but have had an opportunity to read here and elsewhere some of the comments and reviews from those that have, might not also be more inclined to enjoy it on their first full viewing, what with having some forewarning of the changes and deviations from the book, and going into it with the understanding that it is an adaptation “based” on Austen’s Persuasion rather than a really faithful rendition of it. I also wonder if some of those who were initially disappointed with it might not warm to it with a little passing of time and a few subsequent viewings. This production did after all apparently succeed very well on some levels, if not on others.
No, no, Marcia. It will never be good enough. Not for us snobs.
This snob here is not really expecting anything great when she gets to watch the adaptation (any time now) with her snobbish eyes.
The other two, MP and very especially NA were absolutely of low standard for my snobbish tastes, and I won’t have anything to do with them.
*moan* This eagerly awaited *Austen* season turned out to be *Austin* season. *moan* *Groan*
This other snob is torn. I have not seen it either, but I love P and P2 very much that some kind of prejudiced reaction from my part, similar to that I had with P&P3, could be expected from me. However, unlike with P&P3, I was willing to give P3 the benefit of the doubt because it looked the best of the bunch, I liked some of the previes, some of the cast and the locations. I still wish to see P3 just because I have to see it with my own eyes, but all the reviews around the JA forums have warned me. At least I won’t be screaming at the screen because key parts of the novel have been changed.
BTW, I don’t think I have mentioned that MP3 left me flat, and please do not throw things at me, but I liked NA2. I know it’s not a faithful rendition of NA and the locations were wrong, but like some others around here, I had previously read AD’s script, I was also forewarned that much of Da Man’s best lines would not appear. I had also heard AD’s opinion of Da Man and unfortunately he could not understand him, as he don’t understand Emma. I am also glad that we were spared of two scenes which made no sense at all in the script. Perhaps what also make me see NA2 with good eyes is that the two leads did their best with what they were given and they have chemistry together IMHO.
There are a few people who are of the opinion that the kiss in ITVs Persuasion was of no value to the film because the book was so well written that if followed and put on film the kiss would not have been needed as a crutch. Speaking as a psychology minor and as someone who has read a few historical novels I believe they put that scene in the movie because once Anne runs through the streets unchaperoned and compromises herself, and Captain Wentworth kisses her and compromises her, they already know in their hearts neither one can be persuaded to walk away from the other. It is a done deal the moment Anne takes off running. The film, I believe, will encourage a whole new generation to read Jane Austen’s novels, see movies based on her novels, and maybe encourage them to read other authors. Overall, I and many others appreciate the effort made by these movie-makers to bring us these films because there are many other projects of lesser value that they could have pursued.
One girl’s humble opinion.
Anything I was going to say has already been said, both good and bad.
But, to make things short, i liked it.
The people at the Rupert Penry-Jones fan site are ordering the DVD right and left. They loved it! However, I don’t know how many of them have read the book.
Considering some of the DVDs I’ve ordered with My Sweet Babboo in them, I know where they are coming from. I mean, I OWN The Affair of the Necklace. But Adrien’s really, really hot in it, so I think that excuses me. And the costumes are quite delicious. Mmmm, Adrien in gaping frilly shirtage….
…what were we talking about again?
Hey, The Affair of the Necklace is great trashy fun and the appearance of Your Sweet Babboo in gratitious gapping frilly shirtage is a delight. Alright, shallow-mode off. I actually have less qualms when moviemakers are trying to adapt historical events since they have to fashion the ‘story’ for the audience. But when adapting a book, the story is already there. Yes, I know bits have to be cut and shortened and dialogue changed for the constraints of movie making, but it can be down. Proud Book Snob that I am, I have watched and enjoyed many film and tv adaptations of books.
(shallow-mode back one: Mr Elliot=Slurp. Sorry, back to reason). All in all, a very disapointing season from ITV)
And getting back to my unrelenting snobbishness regarding the new ‘Persuasion’, I realize that my first comment, typed about five minutes after broadcast, was too kind. The characters are off, Anne wallows and bubbles all the time, Wentworth looks like he needs a bucket of prunes, Louisa Musgrove is completely over the top, let us not get started on Elizabeth, etc., etc. And I so missed any mention of Gowland’s lotion (I would dearly like a bottle to erase my freckles).
The Olympic sprint around Bath that replaces the letter scene (surely one of the move moving passages) is just silly. Besides, even if Anne was the winner of the bonnet-free-100 metre dash, I still don’t undestand how she managed to get across Bath so fast. Love gives wings, eh? And don’t get me starting on buying the Elliot home at the end (and waltzing. Spork! Pronto!).
As others have mentioned the two outstanding cast members were Anthony Head (as Sir Walter) and Tobias Menzies (as William Elliot). And since we only learnt of Mr Elliot’s perfidy by the invalid Mrs Smith who must have been drinking large quantities of Nurse Rook’s Medicinal Tonic to be able to run from Westgate buildings to the Royal Crescent to blab to Anne, maybe Mr Elliot’s not that bad
I heard from Amazon.co.uk that my DVDs are on the way. Yes, I’ve ordered them all. Sad, I know…
And a nice note regarding the ITV season, I was amused to spot that Fanny Price (Sylvestra Le Touzel, from ‘Manfield Park, 1983. A Janeite friend calls her the ‘doughy Fanny Price’…) had obviously decided to reject the Lord High Mayor of Wankerville (that’s not MY title!) and marry Mr Allen and live in Wiltshire (judging by the new NA) while Edmund Betram (Nicolas Farrell, MP 1983), once escaped from Fanny’s clutches, has decided to let the entire curate thing go hang and run away to Uppercross, changing his name to Musgrove. And all are happy!
Sorry, am easily amused.
I really like the book, and the Root/Hinds version. I have not seen the MP or NA of the ITV season yet, but most other JA adaptations thus far. That aside, I liked this adaptation. I’ve watched a lot of adaptations, and this was not a bad one. I no longer care about how inaccurate or changed things are from the book, but the characters and atmosphere must feel right and the same to me. For the most part, it did.
It felt sombre and the settings fit. I liked the acting, and I thought everyone did well. I believed Anne as she was in the book: capable, sweet, and good. Rupert P-J is gorgeous, but I still think he ranks third under Firth and Armitage (haha). The whole cast was wonderful. I thought it was a bit slow at the beginning so the ending was a bit rushed. In that respect, the movie version is better because it allocated its storytelling time better. The ending was fast and quick. Yes, I didn’t like the Harriet running along side Anne either, and it did bug me that Anne must have been running around Bath for like 1-2 hours (timeline sketchy), but at the same time, I liked it. It made it feel urgent and desperate. They took forever to kiss, but man, the dancing on the lawn was pure cheese! Sometimes, I need that because they just seemed so in love so I couldn’t hold it against them.
Overall, I enjoyed it. Now, I’m a bit afraid when I watch MP (which I haven’t read but saw the movie version) and NP (will read soon).
I liked it. Not enough to buy the DVD but I liked it. I didn’t think it was rushed at all. Bath is exquisite, I want to live there. The camera takes some time to get used to and I’m not sure I understood the need for us to see THAT much of Anne. There were too many close-ups, however, it didn’t feel quite right. Sally and Rupert were wonderful. Well, all in all, as far as I’m concerned, Northanger Abbey brilliant, Persuasion good, Mansfield Park bad.
Could have been worse
A disappointing version. I ended up wanting Anne to be with William Elliot!! as he at least showed a bit of spark and had some screen presence. Austen would be turning in her grave.
Kathleen, thought you’d get a kick out of hearing that Fanny Price Bertram and Edmund Bertram appear as husband and wife *again* in the film Amazing Grace.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454776/
I was a Supporting Artiste on this production.
We spend do much time on some scenes I wonder if the whole production was planned to run 4-6 hours. I found the whole film too rushed with little time to apprecaite the characters. Shame on ITV for dumbing this down.
When I think of all the cost in terms SA’s (salary, costumes, time) and most of the people I met were not seen at all. I made two scenes briefly.
Eveyone at Clerkenwell on set were great. Love to give more details but would be in breach of contract.
I thought it was fabulous! Fantastic acting throughout by all the leading characters especially Rupert Penry-Jones as Captain Wentworth. He is absolutely gorgeous and fit the role perfectly (He really is “sex on legs” and a truly inspirational actor.) Sally Hawkins was also very storng as Anne Elliot likewise Athony Head was eaqully good as Walter Elliot and I also found Mary Musgrove very amusing. By far my favourite out of the three adaptations and I am definately going to buy it on DVD. Well done to the cast and crew!
I just finished watching this, and have to say that after reading some of the comments here, I was surprised by how much I liked it. Quite a lot of it was faithful to the book. (Moreso than I expected, at least…) However, I agree with those who are still hoping for a really good adaptation of this wonderful novel. My two main complaints are actually the same I had with the Amanda Root version:
1.) For all the emphasis put on the sombre tone of Persuasion, it’s actually quite funny in parts–do the filmmakers (of both versions) not realize this?? All the humor from the Crofts gets completely excised from the screen versions. My heart rose when I saw that they included the scene with Admiral Croft being astonished by all the mirrors in Sir Elliot’s room, but they left out the dialogue that makes it funny, plus if you haven’t read the novel, you wouldn’t even know whose room it was…!
2.) I guess mine is the minority opinion on this, but I really didn’t find Sally Hawkins that compelling or attractive. I also though Amanda Root was too plain and mousy for the role of Anne. *ducks*. I’m sorry, but I think people (filmmakers at least) have somehow gotten the–erroneous–idea that Anne Elliot is supposed to be plain. Anne is described as pretty, and as “an elegant little woman,” and I’d love to see her portrayed that way onscreen someday!!
So I read all the comments here about the running through the streets and should have been totally prepared when I finally watched it today, but I still couldn’t contain my gag reflex. I was actually yelling “Stop! Please stop!” and looking away.
Anyway, I still liked a lot of it. Antony Head was awesome.
One of my favorite lines in the book is when Admiral Croft says that Sir Walter will never set the Thames on fire. It cracks me up every time. P95 doesn’t have it, I doubt that P07 has it, and I don’t remember if P71 has it.
I have not seen this version yet (DVDs are on their way across the Atlantic as I type), but I can’t think of anyone who’s better as Mary than Sophie Thompson. I think she was brilliant. I like her better as an actress than her sister, but I know that’s a minority opinion.
Well, I just finished watching P3 and I must say I really enjoyed it. Now, the book is the best and P2 is still the best adaptation available, but I did like this one.
Now, I did think Anne’s running near the end of the film was quite ridiculous. At least everyone around her on the street is staring at her strangely so they at least know that’s not normal. I do agree that they wasted alot of good time with the run that could have been used for something else. The kiss on the street didn’t bother me in the least. I think it took as long as it did because a) Wentworth was allowing Anne time to catch her breath and b)he just wanted to look at her and bask in her features once again. After all he knows she loves him if she risked all propriety to come flying after him. He also is probably trying to make himself believe that’s she’s really his now.
I thought Mary was funny and obviously just wanted attention. Elizabeth was good, Sir Walter fine, but didn’t get much screen time. William Walter Elliot was good. One thing I thought was interesting was after Mr. Elliot leaves the inn Mary wonders if he has the Elliot countenance. While looking out the window she smiles and looks like she could be a twin to Mr. Elliot. They both have that long chin.
Captain Wentworth and Anne were great. I liked the scene where they first meet up again. Oh, I was curious about the scene where Anne is playing the piano. Did Captain Wentworth really come in and watch her, then she looks up and he is gone? Or is she hallucinating? I also think the log scene is supposed to replace the little Walter scene. I didn’t mind it, but wish they would have chosen to keep the Little Walter scene.
I did not like the Crofts or Charles Musgrove very well. Mrs. Croft looked far too old to pass for a 38 year old as well as a sister of Frederik. The Admiral hardly said anything. He just followed her around like a puppy dog or something. Hardly struck me as a sailor.
Captain Harville and Captain Benwick were both good. This Captain Benwick is much better then in P1 or P2. He’s young like he should be and I can easily see how he and Louisa Musgrove would be a good match.
I liked the ending despite the waltz and I’m choosing to believe that they are renting Kellynch Hall.
After I finished watching Persuasion I couldn’t help but think that Nicholas Farrell (Mr. Musgrove) should have popped out near the end of Anne’s jog around Bath and loaned her a soundtrack to Chariots of Fire! I think she was ready for it by the end of her run. Now that song is running through my head!
(Nicholas Farrell was Aubrey Montague in Chariots of Fire. The good friend of Eric Liddell.)
Hi Gerald Neve!!! Which scenes are you in? I’ll wave to you on screen whenever I get to see this film. And stick around here some more — we promise not to tell whatever tidbits you whisper to us.
You know, I was pretty much enjoying it, despite the switching around of scenes, right up until the concert scene, and then we entered Austen Bizarro World. What the heck was that? It was lovely to see scenes set in the Assembly Rooms actually filmed there–but the running-around-Bath scenes were not only weird in themselves but displayed such a perfect contempt for Bath geography that I am quite at a loss. Too bad; filmmaking quality-wise, it’s head and shoulders above the first two films. One felt that the people involved gave a damn. I’d like to see what they could have done with another half-hour of running time.
Another half-hour of “running time”? Please….didn’t we already have enough of Anne’s running time through bath?!:) I know what you mean. I think a half hour more would have been helpful,but I don’t hate this film like it is.
Whaaat? I just watched this on YouTube. I’m grateful to the person who put it up if only that I have saved time. I now can go do something else when it airs on Masterpiece Theatre or A&E (???) here in America, like weed the garden or go have a pap smear. I really did not enjoy this version and will go back and re-watch Amanda Root play my favorite JA character of all time. And all of the running at the end? WHY?
@Clare
I was quite satisfied with bothe the points you have mentioned in P&P1 (the BBC version).
This Anne, inspite of her hairdo, is very elegant and not at all mousy.
Quite a lot of humour is intact, especially Admiral Croft at Kellynch is quite hilarious.
*sigh* Why don’t they make such adaptations anymore?
I know, I know, people will say P&P1 seems good because of it’s length, and I say – then make longer adaptations – mini series are the best!!!!!!
I agree with the majority of the comments that the ITV adaptation of Persuasion left me extremely disappointed.
Sally Hawkins was an excellent choice to play Anne Elliot but why oh why, must her hairstyle be so severe compared to the other women in the film? Having Rupert Penrys Jones play Captain Wentworth was great for at last, we get a dashing, handsome man for the hero (no offence to all you Ciaran Hinds fans)! However, the chemistry between these two left much to be desired. Hardly, Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth.
There was so many deviations from the book which ultimately spoilt this for me. It was utterly stupid having Anne do a half marathon in the final scene. Dropping the much awaited for ‘letter’ scene was unforgivable. The kiss at the end was annoying to say the least. I do like some spark at the end of a love story but to have the kiss initiated by Anne is just not on. Hellooooooooooooooooooo! Have you writer, director, producer read the book at all? It was the 19th century! Considering the letter Captain Wentworth wrote, it would have been much better if it was he who kissed Anne rather than she kissed him! It looked for a moment that Rupert PJ was forced into that kiss!!! Like I said earlier, the chemistry between these two could have frozen ice.
I would love a mini series of Persuasion, with the script writer keeping true to the book, like what BBC did with the 1996 Pride and Prejudice (Ehle and Firth etc). A nice steamy kiss at the end with CHEMISTRY would be fantastic! So, who out there would like this challenge?
I dont quite understand how Anthony Head was reduced to sobs when he saw this production because I didnt warm to Sally Hawkins and Rupert Penry Jones at all. Where was the on screen chemistry! They had no scenes together where I really felt a connection between the two of them. The director/producer seemed so pleased to have the leads that they obviously thought they didnt have to do much more for the viewer to be bowled over but I for one had no empathy with them at all. The ridiculous end just about topped off a poor adaptation. I enjoyed Anthony Head’s performance and thought Tobias Menzies was even better and if both hadnt been in the production I think I’d have switched off. The scenes between William Elliot and Anne seemed the most convincing which is bizarre and it would have been easy up until the very end to say that he deserved her more than Wentworth. Very odd.
Deb R,
I did:
Assembly Halls – promenading
Pump Room – concert walked in behind with my escort along with the principles and sat in the row behind them.
Bath Gate – I was drinking ale while Anne ran through. I was out of shot as were the ducks (another story)
Royal Crescent
Walking around – in one medium shot
My copy of the DVD arrived this morning so, naturally, I had to drop everything and watch this. I must say that I share the sentiments of many here regarding this adaptation. Where I might deviate is regarding Penry-Jones’s characterization of Captain Wentworth. I think he played it as a man who was hurt before and was afraid of getting hurt again, so I can empathize with his reservedness.
It was disheartening to listen to Anne’s discourse on whose love lasts longest, when she said it to Benwick early on. This scene was the perfect precursor to the “letter,” but then, again, the latter had lost it’s impact by its narration as background to Anne’s running scene—almost as an afterthought. What have they done?
Some of the scenes were somewhat amusing only because they serve as mnemonic to particular parts in the book. It gave me pleasure to be able to speak some of the lines before the actors did. All in all, I would consider this a passable interpretation of the original work. Not too objectionable to the Janeite, fulfilling enough to those who have not read the book, and possibly a good enough incentive for some of the latter to take an interest in reading the original.
I rate this one three-and-a-half stars, out of five.
As an Austen fan, though, I give it two quills out of five.
I did have some problem with some of the actors. Amanda Hale, who played Mary Musgrove, reminded me too much of Ruth Buzzi. I was waiting for her to pull out her handbag and start hitting everybody around her.
Elizabeth Elliot, played by Julia Davis (Nighty Night)—I expected her at any moment to start behaving badly. She did not come across as being so very handsome and very like Sir Walter. I still think the best cast Elizabeth was Valerie Gearon in the 1971 version. And speaking of which, P1 gave the best rendition of Mrs. Smith’s revelation of William Elliot’s true character.
Other memorable moments, (or not)—the miracle of the invalid walking the streets of Bath, chasing down a crazed runner.
Captain Wentworth acquiring Kellynch Hall as a wedding present for his bride… huh?
The looking-into-the-camera-lens routine does not work quite right. The only filmmaker I can think of who could make this work was Krzysztof Kieslowski, and he did not overuse it. Just like any other potent plot device, it needs to be used judiciously.
Sally Hawkins, however, did a very fine job, and overshadowed the hero—typical of a true Jane Austen heroine, wouldn’t you say?
Here is a P.S., to some of the readers…
To Julie P, sorry no setting the Thames on fire scene in P1 either. I reviewed it earlier. They did not even show Sir Walter meeting with the Admiral before the former moved out of Kellynch.
To Reeba, I suppose you were referring to Persuasion 1971 when you wrote “P&P1”? I liked it for the scene with Mrs. Smith exposing Mr. Elliot to Anne. But they should not have excised the part when Little Charles fell off the tree. The scene was quite revealing of Anne’s character.
To Ina, I did not use contumacious even once today. So, are we copacetic?
I think Wentworth is leasing Kellynch-Hall at the end of P3. They said several times in the film that it was entailed.
“…they are renting Kellynch Hall”
No way. Wentworth’s “your wedding present” doesn’t make any sense with a rented house.
I’ve just been watching episode 1, 10 and 11. It was as much as I could bear. This was not Jane Austen. This was Barbara Cartland (apart from Anne’s marathon, which may be inspired by films like “Harry&Sally”, “The Apartment”, or some such). Anyhow, I managed to understand that Kellynch, in this movie, is supposed *not* to be entailed. Anne tells Lady Russell at the very beginning that letting out Kellynch is better than *selling* it (“at least one day we may yet return”).
Cudos to all who managed to sit through the whole of this. I must leave off now and try to uncurl my toes.
I too was disappointed with this adaptation. Ah, well. At least we know Anne Elliot to be a very fit lady indeed after that marathon run around town at the end. I think she’d give Olympians a run for their money. Ooh, pun intended.
Oh, yes!! That was meant to be P1 of 1971 and not P&P1, Tony!
Am about to eat humble pie.Have just watched it again and surprised myself by quite liking it this time – it must have been the shock of seeing so many changes that put me off so badly the first time round. Parts of it were very touching and I enjoyed Sally Hawkins’ performance.I certainly prefer this adaptation to the previous two. Still sad though, that some of the best bits were left out, and still hoping to see a really faithful version one day.
Just one small point in the dialogue that I didn’t understand – maybe someone can enlighten me. Capt. Wentworth asks Louisa when Anne had refused Charles and she replies :”I do not exactly know, but before he married Mary.” Pardon?
I haven’t seen the adaptation yet (where on earth is that DVD?!), but this seems quite a silly remark by Louisa: of course Anne refused Charles BEFORE he married Mary!
I’m not sure what it is that you don’t understand, Vivien. Charles Musgrove had asked Anne to marry him before he asked her sister Mary. Anne rejected him, and then he asked Mary instead. And Mary accepted his proposal.
Exactly, Franka. She should have said “about a year before he married Mary”, – but I mustn’t split hairs and find more to complain about!
That was a ‘wrong’ dialogue, a thoughtless one, and the script writer’s fault.
Of course it has to be before he married Mary! LOL!!!
Don’t be too sure about that, ladies. It might have made sense to Wentworth. You know what they say about these sailors… a girl in every port, and all that. I never did trust that Captain—
But, seriously, upon further review, I am finding a lot of grievous errors in the movie, from a filmmaking standpoint, either from outright stupidity, or maybe the script writer was having fun with those Austen people, trying to see if they can catch these blunders and raise hell over them.
Case in point, at the end, just before her now infamous marathon run, Anne had made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that the rumors of her attachment to Mr. Elliot were untrue, “…utterly misinformed… Quite mistaken.” Then after the Captain leaves, why would she so desperately run after him. Did she think him too stupid to understand her? And then to disgrace herself like that, and throw herself at him? Lord! what have these nineteenth century girls come to?!
I suspect the screenwriter was too lazy to read the book and merely watched P2 for his material. It just seems that a number of “fabricated” scenes from P2 were transplanted over to this version.
And during the opening scene, was that supposed to be a maid standing in the hallway holding a tray of ink just for Anne to refresh her pen while she was writing what was supposed to be an inventory of the house contents? Or was it a Borg drone left over from Alice Krige’s Borg Queen days?
I have one question for the wardrobe experts, please. It is about a P3 scene which left me quite shocked since all the reviews had not been warned me about it, I do not think anyone has mentioned it before. When little Charles’s accident happens, his aunt was preparing herself to dress for the party at Uppercross and to attend the child she gets out of her room only half-dressed, with what it seems to me a nigthrobe not well wrapped around her that her undergarments could be seen not only by us the viewers, but also her sister, her brother in-law and Mr. Musgrove senior. Am I correct, was she improperly dressed? When I saw that I was reminded of Lydia Bennet in P&P2, when she also leaves her room not completely dressed and meets Collins in the corridor and I can hardly recover from the thought that Anne Elliot descended to that comparison.
Finally finished watching it. Of the recent ITV adaptations, it is by far the strongest and best characterized. However, they did lose me with Anne’s running the Bath marathon towards Wentworth and Harriet Smith’s sudden appearance mid-race. Ah, and the wedding present of Kellynch Hall…as a leased home? That was a bit tacked on, in my opinion.
Yes Franka! I thought that too, of course it was before he married Mary! duh.
Ok so I just had a chance to watch this on youtube and can give my thoughts while still fresh. I liked the music. I liked that there was less screaming in it than the last Persuasion. I liked that some of the side stuff regarding Wentworth and Louisa was shown as he was talking to Harville. Giving that insight into the hero was a good choice. I thought the movie was very poignant. The camera shots were ok at times and didn’t work at other times. I think it in fact was more understandable to a novice than the last movie and did an ok job with the story. I felt some of the screenplay was better than the 95 Persuasion, especially at the beginning. I think the blossoming of their relationship was shown better, especially since Wentworth told Harville he still loved Anne. So the jealousy of Mr. Elliot was more ostensible.
I thought the kiss was the worst movie kiss ever! She looked like she was trying to eat his mouth or something. And yes as said above the ending was dreadful and all the running, and running with Mrs. Smith! oh no. I wish one movie would get it right regarding Mrs. Smith and Mr Elliot. I didn’t like the costumes, especially Anne’s. I think I picture the Musgroves as much older. Oh and my word, Anne can put dislocations back into place? Who wouldn’t want to marry her?!
Anne was okay. She reminded me of the actress in Middlemarch with the tiny voice. Wentworth was pretty good too. I enjoyed it while it was going and was not really disappointed. I hope more people appreciate how good of a book it is now.
I was disappointed with this version. I love the book, it is my favourite Austen work. It deals with love and loss in a mature and subtle way. Anne Elliot is quietly strong, determined, and passionate, and I feel that Sally Hawkins didn’t really convey that: her take on Anne seemed a bit bemused and insipid. I also hate the fact that the writers messed around with the story so much. Why did they feel they had to do that? Time limits, I guess. The 1995 version may also take liberties with the text, but is quite close to the narrative of the book.It has a realistic feel, not chocolate box-ish in any way, which is how the new ITV1 film sometimes felt. I hope there will a faithful take on this great book sometime in the future.
I finally received my DVD and saw Persuasion too now! And I have to say that I wasn’t completely blown away by it. Actually, not at all. It wasn’t really touching and I think it missed a soul. In this version I couldn’t really care if Anne and Wentworth ended up together (perhaps that was because I knew they would, but actually I think it was because this whole movie was not really special, the acting very average, etc.). The BBC version with Amanda Root and Ciaran Hinds was SO much better!
I think some of the actors in this new production were very good, like the girl who played Mary Musgrove, or Sir Walter Eliot (for example the scene when he walks to the concert in the Pump Room and looks into his small mirror, that was hilarious!). But I think Mrs Clay and Elizabeth Eliot should have been much more ugly and annoying. Henrietta and Louisa were great, very young and very lively, as they should be. Although, I think they should also have been a bit more annoying, a bit more threatening for Anne.
I didn’t particularly like Rupert Penry-Jones, and I certainly don’t think he is ‘the new Mr Darcy’ as someone once said. Somehow he only seems to have just one facial expression, which is ‘showing no emotion at all’. Sally Hawkins’ performance was fine, but it was just not Amanda Root….. And the way she gazed into the camera all the time was shamelessly stolen from MP2. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing, I actually quite liked it.
I agree with you, Tamara, that the kiss was one of the worst movie kisses ever!
By the way, excuse me if I’m wrong, but are you the Tamara I think you are…?
I finally watched this on Youtube. It was…not good. I thought Rupert P-J was good, but Sally Hawkins was just too blah. Amanda Root had a bit of sparkle too her, even in her “plain” scenes. Sally didn’t have any sparkle. And the kiss was creepy – I know she was trying to catch her breath from all the running (don’t get me started on the running), but she looked like a fish opening and closing her mouth over and over. But I did think the bit about Charles proposing to Anne before he married Mary was hilarious. I thought it was intentional — to show how the Musgrove girls are sweet, but stupid.
I was so disappointed.Give me the 1995 version any day.
The actress playing Mary Musgrove was awful.The dialogue was swapped around from the book.Would they really have been walking on the Cobb in such awful weather? Poor Anne was unceremoniously ‘plonked’ on the back of the Admiral’s chaise. Why was the invalid Mrs Smith running about Bath, and why also was Anne running about Bath? The camera was jiggling around so much I felt sick.How did Wentworth buy Kellynch for them both? It was entailed to Mr Elliot.Why do screenwriters have to muck things about so much? Rupert P-J was a nice bit of eye-candy, but not much else. Sorry. I had such high hopes, but it was a disappointing let-down.
OK so it may not be exactly true to the book (and i know the book i’ve read it hundreds of times) but wat does that matter?
i really liked some of the extra bits added in – like captains wentworth and harville talking. it gave wentworths explanation to anne without having to add extras onto the end of the film whichi thiink is very clever. also, well, anymore scenes with rupert in is OK by me!!!!
i agree that the changing round of the proposal and the conversation between harville and ann was unnecessary and slightly annoying but it wasn’t too bad.
i loved rupert and sally – they had really good chemistry and he was so much better than ciaran hinds in the 95 bbc version.
overall i loved it!!! definately the best of the itv adapatations aswell as of the previous persuasion adapatations.
The kiss at the end was very strange! Harry Hill made fun of it last night: he said something like ‘isn’t it annoying when you don’t know whether to kiss someone or bite them?’ There WAS something a little vampiric about it, and Captain Wentworth/Rupert Penry Jones seemed very reluctant, considering how he had just revealed the extent of his love for her in the letter…
Some of the casting seemed wrong; Julia Davis was basically playing a watered down version of Jill from ‘Nighty Night’, and in the book Mrs. Clay has freckles and a ‘projecting tooth’; in this version she was very attractive! Also, the whole thing lacked humour. Where was the satire? I felt that Anthony Head, although his acting was very good, was a little too nasty as Sir Walter. In the novel, his thoughtlessness is made more acceptable because he is also ridiculous. On the positive side, Rupert Penry Jones was delicious to look at…
Ok! I am very late, but here are my 2cents.
I liked the cast very well indeed. Mr. William Elliot could have been a tid more charismatic for me, but I was so glad I was forwarned by the reviews I read before.
Got dizzy at the camera.handling in the beginning, had to laugh out loud, when they climbed awkwardly over a trunk instead of walking around the boulder, and at Wentworth and whowasit (can’t remember exactly the turn of the script now) standing in the spray (?) at sea in that awful conditions getting full wet. But I must admit, it may have mirrored all those stormy feelings brewing inside the good captain. LOL!
I do not forgive the skewering of the letter-scene.
My favourite film version will stay the Roots/Hinds version.
Tony A. wrote:
And during the opening scene, was that supposed to be a maid standing in the hallway holding a tray of ink just for Anne to refresh her pen while she was writing what was supposed to be an inventory of the house contents?
LOL, I noticed her, too. If anybody asked me, this person’s job would have been the first to go if I had to retrench.
Yes quite, Franka. Our names must be uncommon enough.
I have mixed feelings about this version of Persuasion. I liked it, but there are a few problems that I can’t just let go. I loved RPJ and Sally Hawkins, but I think the script didn’t make just to the characters like they are described in the book. Anne Elliot seemed to me a little bit too weak, and cries a lot. She never considered marrying Mr. Elliot, because she had a bad feeling about him. And she should have never run through Bath like crazy after Wentworth!! What was that about?! And once again they didn’t put that sweet scene where Wentworth saves Anne from the annoying child, climbing her back! I would mix the too scripts from 97 and 07, and I’m sure it would make the perfect adaptation of Persuasion!!
To Anon. @98:
I completely agree with your comment that Sally Hawkins ‘looked like a fish opening and closing her mouth over and over’! And not just in the kissing scene–she does the same thing when Mr. Elliot proposes to her…and when Wentworth leaves the recital…and the next morning when he shows up at the Elliots’ house to explain his ‘commission’…and generally whenever it seems she is trying to convey emotion. It was soooo annoying and off-putting!!
Tamara;
Its time to come back!
I like Miss Franka’s review of this new version of Persuasion.Did that over-rated Davies do the screenplay on this ITV version?
J.
Nope. No Davies here, thank God.
I agree that Anne looked like a fish when she was reaching up to kiss Wentworth. In fact, I said exactly that to the person I watched the movie with last night.
But, overall, I liked it a lot. I thought RPJ was sufficiently sexy and brooding, and that SH did a better job than I’d expected. I liked Nicholas Farrell and Alice Krige; I just wish they’d given us more of the Musgroves, the Crofts and Lady R. My problem with Sophy is that she looked more like Wentworth’s mother than his sister.
I liked the Musgrove girls (I’m still reeling at the thought that Henrietta Musgrove played Anne de Bourgh in P&P05), but I didn’t like either Mary or Charles (Jr.) Musgrove. I thought that the woman playing Mary was trying too hard to channel Sophie Thompson (simply not possible) and that the man playing Charles just didn’t understand the character. “Good-natured” doesn’t have to mean “twit.
I loved Anthony Head as Sir Walter. Even without Corin Redgrave’s lisping and wardrobe, I thought that Mr. Head did a terrific job with the character. I loved the primping, and am glad they left the mirrors-at-Kellynch scene in this version.
I liked Mr. Elliot, but we don’t really get to see just how horrible a person he is. That’s a shame because the story misses something without the full disclosure.
Is the book’s Mrs. Smith really named Harriet? I can’t remember if it is. All I could think of when I heard the name “Harriet Smith” was “where’s Emma? Where’s Mr. Knightley?”
I didn’t like the way The Letter was handled. How could I focus my attention on RPJ’s lovely voice and those beautiful words while Anne is doing wind sprints around Bath? And, speaking of running, I have to say that I never knew how good a nurse Mrs. Rooke was — she managed to get an invalid to run!
I really didn’t like the scene when Wentworth picks Anne up and puts her on the back seat of the Crofts’ carriage. First, I kept thinking he was treating her like a sack of potatoes, and second, why the heck was she facing backwards? She’s supposed to be sitting with the Crofts, not in back of them.
Yes, I liked it, but I still prefer P95. Hands down.
Julie P.
Persuasion is my favorite book of Austen’s.The film version with Hinds/Root is my favorite.I bought a bbc jane austen collection, so called “masterpiece theater” all filmed in the 1970′s or 80′s? and i did not like them.Adrimal Croft with a beard?
The part of Mr Elliot the younger,cheating Anne’s friend- Mrs.Smith’s husband-is quite clear.What I have never understood was the connection to Mr.Elliot and Mrs Clay,and was Mrs Clay’s father- Mr.Shepherd, Sir Walter’s barrister -(lawyer over here) involved?
If Davies had done this production it probably would have been much better, James!
Great to ‘see’ you again, Tamara!
Julie P., no, Mrs Smith is never referred to as Harriet in the book. I was taken aback upon hearing “Harriet,” and was compelled to review the book. In spite of the friendship between her and Anne, the latter only addressed her as “Mrs Smith.” And Mrs Smith, née Miss Hamilton, remained sans a first name throughout the book.
And I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding Charles Musgrove, especially in the last scene. A superlative twit.
I do not even want to think on the Letter, or the (absence of the) “debate” between Anne and Harville before it. It’s like… never mind. I feel my blood pressure rising again.
If Davies had done this production it probably would have been much better
I beg to differ. Persuasion is romantic and sexy on its own. It doesn’t need the Dirty Old Man’s “special touch.”
OK,Young Mr.Elliot does Mr.and mrs.Smith wrong,but how is it he is connected to mrs Clay? Is there some king of conspiracy with Mrs Clay’s father,Mr.Shepherd who is Sir Walters lawyer?
james
I have not seen the ITV version.From what I have read here I do not want to either.
I really liked the Hinds/Root version,even if they had almost all of the Navy things WRONG!
1. An Adrimals boat crew would never be so shabby!Never!
2. The piping aboard of the Adrimal was wrong.and,The Captains of his Fleet would be going to his Ship!
3.The scene in his cabin was wrong as far as the seating of the Officers.
4.No Frigate carried 74 guns,nor was a frigate a second class!
5.Frigates were either 4th or fifth rate.Maximun number of guns was about 54 like as was on the U.S.Navy Constitution class Heavy Frigates,which could blow any two or three Royal Navy frigates out of the water-with experienced crews.
How can anyone top John Woodvine and Fiona Shaw as George and Sophie Croft? They have to be the best married couple that Jane Austen ever wrote about!
James
Hi James,
There is no conspiracy; Mr. Elliot hears the gossip about Mrs. Clay living in the Elliot household and everyone’s assumption that she will try to marry Sir Walter, and he wants to keep that from happening. She was still young, and if she married Sir Walter and bore him a son, Mr. Elliot would not inherit Kellynch. From the novel:
He really did like Anne and wanted to marry her; the keeping-an-eye-on-Sir-Walter bit was gravy. Here’s another bit, from Mrs Smith’s reveal of Mr. Elliot’s perfidy:
P.S. I always thought the Admiral was being rowed out to his flagship after hearing from, say, the port admiral that the war is over…
What a weak production. I wouldnt have enjoyed it if it hasnt been for Tobias Menzies who was wonderful as William Elliot. His first appearance was definitely the best scene of the movie. Mysterious and sexy.
I hated the way his character was explained away at the end. He was charming, elegant and full of charisma throughout the production and suddenly a character rushes up to Anne and calls him rotten. Ann believes her immediately without question! and then rushes about like an idiot trying to find the bland and boring Wentworth. Penry Jones had absolutely no screen presence.
Anne’s character never developed. It was impossible to like her and the actresses mouth gaped open like a guppy fish the whole time. Harry Hill’s humerous swipe at the final kiss was well deserved.
Mags,
In the Hinds/Root version you only see a gig being rowed to a ship.You have no idea where they are.No port,bay or land of any kind is seen.
I cannot believe I missed that in the book!Too bad young Mr.Elliot did not marry Elizabeth!Yet his choice of Anne,was correct in that she is the best of the Elliots!
And of Mrs.Clay,I dont think “Sir Walter”was interested in her other than as a companion for his eldest daughter.
Who would want to marry a fellow like Corin Redgraves character!
I love his reaction and expression when Anne tells him off about going to see Mrs Smith!(instead the Dowager Dalrimple…..
Forget the adaptations. Just read the book. It will put everything in its proper place, I promise.
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but I could not help but notice the amount of historical inaccuracies within the production. Light switches, radiators, modern grates, floodlights, a Captain Wentworth with his ear pierced, Anne telling Wentworth there was a concert on at the Pump rooms which turned out to be Assembly Rooms, floodlights in the background whilst Anne was running!!!…could not they see this!
What a waste of a fine cast. I had such high hopes, having seen prior work of so many of the actors. I have no clue what parts most of them were playing — and clearly they didn’t either. Only Anthony Head got it right. I nearly screamed when Anne and Benwick talked of constancy in men and women at Lyme. Wentworth is supposed to hear this conversation — and yet he appears to have written his letter to Anne even before he comes to ask her about the Kellynch lease (do we really have to have BOTH endings?).
I watched it again just to make sure I’d given it a fair chance. Pity me.