Comments on: The Very Secret Diary of Henry Tilney http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:21:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Mandy N http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31996 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:12:37 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31996 …and no, I doubt anyone thinks your’e any spaz ! Or I wouldn’t bother to reply. That’s very negative, cheer up and enjoy a re-read of NA when you can.

]]> By: Mandy N http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31995 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:07:01 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31995 Oh,I don’t think it happened in the text- I just think it’s a valid change.
Well, that’s alot of speculation for something ‘not in the text.’ Newspapers of JA’s day delighted in scandel pertaining to public figures like Gen. Tilney ; I doubt Thorpes need do anything. Frederick would be more careful of his inheritance. Also, Isabella as a calulating flirt in a vulnerable position won’t risk public censure. The precise reason she wants to marry is for security and respectablity; else she’d be content as the mistress of a rich man.

>I thought the point of Janeism was having a passion for the books and not being better-read-than -thou.
LOL! I think your’ve touched a theme of JA; Northanger Abbey is a text about reading, reading people, and reading situations. :-) Some posters disparage NA as a ‘little book’ where nothing happens; maybe we can all agree NA is more complex and warrants it’s own mini-series. Let’s hope NA3 is not far away !

]]> By: Julie P. http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31994 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:25:45 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31994 Don’t worry Miss Otis. I take a whole lot of abuse around here for having the temerity to have liked P&P05.

]]> By: Miss Otis http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31993 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:43:54 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31993 I guess I’ll make this my last reply in the post, as I’m apparently violating the Sacred Code by liking the movie and *gaspshockhorror* not having read the book in a bit. That’s the trouble with college (and especially being overseas) – you can’t do as much personal reading as you’d like. (I have read it though, dear Mandy.) So, yes, I forget which (very minor) bits are from the book and which the film. I thought the point of Janeism was having a passion for the books, and not being better-read-than-thou.

Any scandal the Thorpes created in the papers would look much, much worse for them. Literally everyone would have sided with the guy in such an event, because obviously a girl who would sleep with a man before the ring was on her finger and the dowry paid is a trollop &c. and they would have been untouchables. He’d just have to say that she was lying and he’d never slept with her, and he’d have been believed – it still happens today in rape cases, where a man says she came onto him. She didn’t have to bed James because he made it obvious that he wanted to marry her, and if the Morlands didn’t accept it – well, then they’d have to go off and be poor together, and I don’t think that’s what she wanted. Yes, there are many cads that seduce and abandon women in Austen – but only one per book, so Isabella would have been safe with a different choice. It was a calculated risk that went wrong, because it could have gotten her a marriage. Be as it may, she did accept James and then pull a Marianne and act like she was engaged to Capt. Tilney, which I read as dropping James because it’s so not done, even if she didn’t say to him, “It’s over.” If she had really wanted to keep that connection, she wouldn’t have gone around with Capt. Tilney at all – and, if she was stupid enough to think everything would be okay if she behaved like that, she wasn’t smart enough to realize he wouldn’t marry her.

Sorry for getting belligerent, Mags. :( I don’t try to, really, but sometimes it seems like discussions of Austen movies (esp. new ones) turn into contests about how I read the books more times than this other person … and I don’t know, I’m a spaz.

]]> By: Mags http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31992 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:02:17 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31992 Okay, everyone–deep cleansing breath. Let’s keep the discussion civil.

As far as “why would Isabella give up James”–she didn’t. He gave her up, because he was humiliated by her attentions to Tibby. “…till the very last, if I reasoned with her, she declared herself as much attached to me as ever, and laughed at my fears.” James seemed to think Isabella and Tibby were engaged, but then he was as naive as his little sister, bless his pointy head, and had no Henry to lead him out of the weeds. I honestly don’t think Isabella WOULD voluntarily have given up James until she was very sure of Tibby–even Henry says so–but she didn’t really have a choice. If anything, she should have been more careful of Tibby at that point, if there was no definite engagement, because she didn’t have a fallback anymore, instead of making herself so vulnerable to him. Isabella’s in a very different position from Catherine. Catherine had a comfortable upbringing, so she can be philosophical about love and marriage, but Isabella has no father, no dowry, AND she’s the eldest daughter. She HAS to marry well to bring up the rest of her sisters and all those younger brothers at Merchant-Taylor’s and in the navy, etc. Rather like Jane Bennet. I really don’t see her taking such a chance. Too bad for her she has John the Idiotic for her brother.

And there’s no reason for Isabella to not believe John’s assertions about James and Catherine being heirs to the Allens. There was nothing to deny it–the childless Allens were kind to Catherine and took her about like a daughter. If anything, their behavior tended to confirm it.

Admittedly, all of this is rather complex to be squeezed into 86 minutes. :-) Going back to my assertion that the most fatal flaw of this film was the time limitation.

(And one thing I noticed for the first time on Sunday–the film was changed to make the Allens’ fortune from trade, rather than making Mr. Allen a “gentleman.” Hmm. Wonder why?)

Another thing that occurred to me–if word got out that Tibby was messing with a girl like Isabella, whose background is relatively genteel, could he have been kicked out of the army or been in trouble somehow? I’m not sure about that.

]]> By: Mandy N http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31991 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:01:12 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31991 She could have sued for breach of promise, but he’s alot richer than she is and would probably win.
Look, I’d hardly call Isabella clever; the real point is the Thorpes could still create public scandel in the newspapers for an important family like the Tilneys. An enraged General would prefer to pay hush money than accept Isabella ! Do you believe Capt. Tilney would risk being disinherited for a night with Isabella Thorpe ?! That is my point on why Frederick would be more careful than to bed girls like Isabella.
However, I doubt Isabella is as naive and inexperienced as you make out. In NA, she expressed concern the Morlands wouldn’t accept her; so why didn’t she bed James ? ;) Isabella is ambitious for a genteel, wealthy marriage; in JA’s era, her only dowry are her beauty and virginity. I doubt she’d throw them away before she had her wedding ring.
If Captatin Tilney had been any other guy, he would’ve married her.
Henry didn’t marry Maria nor Willoughby marry Eliza. Darcy had to literally buy Wickham for Lydia to marry. However, as you say- it didn’t happen in the text so it’s a silly non-issue.
The engagement idea was really from James. My impression from the book is Isabella was seen round Bath with Capt. Tilney and bragged to her friends; in a gossipy place like Bath, this gave rise engagement rumours ! When Capt. Tilney heard them, he got alarmed and quickly went to Anne Mitchell.
Yes, I’ve read these questions too- Isabella was disappointed in James’ expectations of 400 pounds a year. As the Allans were long time friends of the Morlands and childless, it was John who really hoped Catherine was an heiress. Isabella lines about hopes of Mr Allan are only in NA2. Sheesh ! Read the book.

]]> By: Miss Otis http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31990 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:54:24 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31990 I am not prepared to say something is there without evidence from JA’s text. JA wasn’t shy when she wanted to make any sexual encounter clear

Oh, I don’t think that it happened in the text – I just think it’s a valid change. It wasn’t inconsistent for the adaptation, for one thing: Isabella really thought he was into her, and had no reason to think he did that sort of thing all the time. She could have sued for breach of promise, but he’s a lot richer than she is and would probably win, and then everyone would know she was disgraced in the bargain. Of course she knew about girls being seduced and abandoned, but one can know a lot of things and still think, “That won’t happen to me.” And I don’t see that book!Isabella was “too smart” for it – if Capt. Tilney had been just about any other guy, he would have married her. If Isabella is so clever, why would she think Capt. Tilney would ever marry her, period? Why give up James? Why believe that the Allens are going to leave their money to the Morlands?

]]> By: Mags http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31989 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:08:41 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31989 Rebecca–do read the book! And let us know what you think! It’s really funny and fun.

And yes, there are men on the blog–ibmiller, for example, and there are others though they’ve been kind of quiet. With some of the net handles it can be hard to tell. Boys, out yourselves… ;-)

]]> By: Rebecca Sue http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31988 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:58:03 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31988 Ooo, Just thought of something… what about a Wiki-adaptation of JA works? Since our collective JA knowledge seems quite good, this might actually be pretty interesting.(“Wiki” as in the general public creates/owns something jointly – like Wikipedia)

]]> By: Rebecca Sue http://austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31987 Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:53:55 +0000 http://www.austenblog.com/2008/01/20/the-very-secret-diary-of-henry-tilney/#comment-31987 I love JA and have never read nor seen NA, so this was a first for me. My sense was the story line held up sufficiently. But it was not compelling, nor were any of the characters, and as a result I have no strong desire to see this again. I felt like the story line was building up towards something when all of a sudden it ended. The actual turning point at Northanger Abbey didn’t seem like much because there wasn’t enough conflict or contrast that occurred before it. I think it was all just too subtle for someone unfamiliar with NA.

It did peak my interest in the book however, but only because I’d like to know what JA really intended.

As an aside… are there any men on this blog? (just wunderin’)

]]>