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	<title>Comments on: Tuesday Open Thread: The Horrors of Photoshop Edition</title>
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		<title>By: Mags</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34254</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*raises hand* Writer here. Fiction and non-fiction. A great deal of my fiction is Jane Austen fan fiction, and in the process of doing that I&#039;ve studied her novels pretty intensively and researched the time period (resulting in my non-fiction book publication).

I remember my first love--my Tom Lefroy. I was in high school. I remember the giddy, hysterical happy feeling. I also think back on it now and wonder what the heck I was thinking because the only thing the guy had going for him was that he really liked me and pursued me. We really had nothing in common. This was very much a teenage romance, of the holding hands and kissing variety. Anyway, certainly I draw on this remembrance when writing, but it would be silly to use that remembrance for writing more mature relationships. (Have I Googled the guy? Oh, yes.)

One of my stories is basically a couple on their honeymoon. Since they were married in the Victorian era when a declaration of affection led to immediate engagement and marriage after a few weeks to cry the banns, the couple spent a lot of time on their honeymoon talking about when they first fell in love with one another, etc. Someone who read it asked me if I had ever been married. (I have not.) She was surprised as she thought I really nailed the way that newly-married couples talk about their relationship to increase their emotional intimacy--a really nice compliment! How did I do it, since I had never been married? I used my imagination, combined with knowledge of the characters and my observance of the married couples I&#039;ve known. Jane Austen was obviously extremely observant of the society around her, and no, it&#039;s NOT too much of a stretch to say that she was able to IMAGINE a great deal, based on observation if not necessarily first-hand knowledge.

Certainly one needs to do one&#039;s research (and there is evidence in her letters that Jane Austen did so--Frank Austen corrected her on naval matters in MP and she had Cassandra ask about hedgerows in Northampton) but there&#039;s a big difference between getting a fact correct and just understanding how people tick and what happens when you create characters and then throw them together and stir. When it works, readers acknowledge its truth, and a masterpiece is born.

I read Jane Austen as a writer as well as a reader so maybe that&#039;s why I am resentful of the idea that she was some sort of stenographer rather than using her imagination and intelligence to create her stories (as she was, quite literally, shown to be doing in the movie). It DOES insult her genius to imply otherwise, especially if you read the fiction of her time. Jane Austen&#039;s work is quite clearly a leap forward in style from her contemporaries.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*raises hand* Writer here. Fiction and non-fiction. A great deal of my fiction is Jane Austen fan fiction, and in the process of doing that I&#8217;ve studied her novels pretty intensively and researched the time period (resulting in my non-fiction book publication).</p>
<p>I remember my first love&#8211;my Tom Lefroy. I was in high school. I remember the giddy, hysterical happy feeling. I also think back on it now and wonder what the heck I was thinking because the only thing the guy had going for him was that he really liked me and pursued me. We really had nothing in common. This was very much a teenage romance, of the holding hands and kissing variety. Anyway, certainly I draw on this remembrance when writing, but it would be silly to use that remembrance for writing more mature relationships. (Have I Googled the guy? Oh, yes.)</p>
<p>One of my stories is basically a couple on their honeymoon. Since they were married in the Victorian era when a declaration of affection led to immediate engagement and marriage after a few weeks to cry the banns, the couple spent a lot of time on their honeymoon talking about when they first fell in love with one another, etc. Someone who read it asked me if I had ever been married. (I have not.) She was surprised as she thought I really nailed the way that newly-married couples talk about their relationship to increase their emotional intimacy&#8211;a really nice compliment! How did I do it, since I had never been married? I used my imagination, combined with knowledge of the characters and my observance of the married couples I&#8217;ve known. Jane Austen was obviously extremely observant of the society around her, and no, it&#8217;s NOT too much of a stretch to say that she was able to IMAGINE a great deal, based on observation if not necessarily first-hand knowledge.</p>
<p>Certainly one needs to do one&#8217;s research (and there is evidence in her letters that Jane Austen did so&#8211;Frank Austen corrected her on naval matters in MP and she had Cassandra ask about hedgerows in Northampton) but there&#8217;s a big difference between getting a fact correct and just understanding how people tick and what happens when you create characters and then throw them together and stir. When it works, readers acknowledge its truth, and a masterpiece is born.</p>
<p>I read Jane Austen as a writer as well as a reader so maybe that&#8217;s why I am resentful of the idea that she was some sort of stenographer rather than using her imagination and intelligence to create her stories (as she was, quite literally, shown to be doing in the movie). It DOES insult her genius to imply otherwise, especially if you read the fiction of her time. Jane Austen&#8217;s work is quite clearly a leap forward in style from her contemporaries.</p>
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		<title>By: Gillian Swart</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gillian Swart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please, Zoe, I know it was a made up story. And Lori C., I see enough parallels to make some speculation plausible. I still maintain that, based on the fact that there is very little in P&amp;P that speaks to genuine feelings of love (while there is in later books means that she came to understand what it felt like to be in love (perhaps she asked someone and that person was really, really good at describing emotion?). Are you guys writers at all? The genius in good writing is telling the story well and making it resonate with the readers. I&#039;m not taking anything away from her genius as a writer. Haven&#039;t you heard the adage ... write what you know about? ... If you don&#039;t know, find out. Or else it shows. Anyway, the Tom Lefroy situation sounds to me a lot like Willoughby in reality and Capt. Wentworth in fantasy. What do you say to agreeing to disagree?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, Zoe, I know it was a made up story. And Lori C., I see enough parallels to make some speculation plausible. I still maintain that, based on the fact that there is very little in P&amp;P that speaks to genuine feelings of love (while there is in later books means that she came to understand what it felt like to be in love (perhaps she asked someone and that person was really, really good at describing emotion?). Are you guys writers at all? The genius in good writing is telling the story well and making it resonate with the readers. I&#8217;m not taking anything away from her genius as a writer. Haven&#8217;t you heard the adage &#8230; write what you know about? &#8230; If you don&#8217;t know, find out. Or else it shows. Anyway, the Tom Lefroy situation sounds to me a lot like Willoughby in reality and Capt. Wentworth in fantasy. What do you say to agreeing to disagree?</p>
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		<title>By: Lori C.</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gillian, you seem to say that destroying letters means the content of the letters might be suspect.  From what we do know of Jane Austens life, it is more likely that Austen&#039;s sister (destroyer of many letters written by Austen) respected Austen&#039;s wishes of privacy and confidentiality. Jumping to such conclusions in the search for real life &quot;inspiration&quot; for Austen&#039;s novels is exactly why some are shaking their heads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gillian, you seem to say that destroying letters means the content of the letters might be suspect.  From what we do know of Jane Austens life, it is more likely that Austen&#8217;s sister (destroyer of many letters written by Austen) respected Austen&#8217;s wishes of privacy and confidentiality. Jumping to such conclusions in the search for real life &#8220;inspiration&#8221; for Austen&#8217;s novels is exactly why some are shaking their heads.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen G</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathleen G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Was not the letter cited by Gillian as a comment by Jane on Tom Lefroy actually referring to the mysterious Mr Blackall, who seems to have been a potential suitor at some point?  It seems rather unlikely, from her reference to him as a piece of &quot;noisy perfection&quot;, that she was madly in love with Mr Blackall, especially if we recall that pictures of perfection made her sick and wicked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was not the letter cited by Gillian as a comment by Jane on Tom Lefroy actually referring to the mysterious Mr Blackall, who seems to have been a potential suitor at some point?  It seems rather unlikely, from her reference to him as a piece of &#8220;noisy perfection&#8221;, that she was madly in love with Mr Blackall, especially if we recall that pictures of perfection made her sick and wicked.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gillian, I&#039;m afraid you&#039;re still not seeing that Becoming Jane is  Made Up Story. As you say yourself, there&#039;s not a whole lot known about Jane&#039;s life--though there certainly is a lot more known about it than you seem to imply--so the fact that the filmmakers would tout this as a biopic is annoying, to put it mildly (as opposed to something like Shakespeare in Love, which was always touted as a made-up, fun look at &quot;what-ifs&quot;). And, the fact that both the filmmakers and yourself think that it&#039;s impossible that a woman could write about something that she hasn&#039;t directly experienced is insulting to Jane&#039;s genius.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gillian, I&#8217;m afraid you&#8217;re still not seeing that Becoming Jane is  Made Up Story. As you say yourself, there&#8217;s not a whole lot known about Jane&#8217;s life&#8211;though there certainly is a lot more known about it than you seem to imply&#8211;so the fact that the filmmakers would tout this as a biopic is annoying, to put it mildly (as opposed to something like Shakespeare in Love, which was always touted as a made-up, fun look at &#8220;what-ifs&#8221;). And, the fact that both the filmmakers and yourself think that it&#8217;s impossible that a woman could write about something that she hasn&#8217;t directly experienced is insulting to Jane&#8217;s genius.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria L.</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not just the C19-ers. There are loads of comments on Youtube, the PBS discussion board and lots of different music sites inquiring about Phipps&#039; music. I know there was a letter writing campaign to the BBC a while back to get them to release his music. I would settle for one disc with some of the highlights!

In S&amp;S, I especially love  the piano piece that Marianne plays in Col. Brandon&#039;s library. Someone on YT transcribed it by ear and plays it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_SJdCjz5RY


And I love the music from North &amp; South, but then again, there isn&#039;t anything I &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt;  love about N&amp;S!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just the C19-ers. There are loads of comments on Youtube, the PBS discussion board and lots of different music sites inquiring about Phipps&#8217; music. I know there was a letter writing campaign to the BBC a while back to get them to release his music. I would settle for one disc with some of the highlights!</p>
<p>In S&amp;S, I especially love  the piano piece that Marianne plays in Col. Brandon&#8217;s library. Someone on YT transcribed it by ear and plays it:</p>
<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_SJdCjz5RY" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_SJdCjz5RY</a></p>
<p>And I love the music from North &amp; South, but then again, there isn&#8217;t anything I <i>don&#8217;t</i>  love about N&amp;S!</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia M.</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvia M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, according to the 5,137 members of C19 there is plenty of interest in the &lt;i&gt;North and South&lt;/i&gt; soundtrack! I think they would do well to make it a two or three disc Martin Phipps set with music from N&amp;S, S&amp;S, and P3. Actually, I don&#039;t know if all 5,137 members would purchase it, but a good portion of them would as well as a host of others. There are constantly people asking about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, according to the 5,137 members of C19 there is plenty of interest in the <i>North and South</i> soundtrack! I think they would do well to make it a two or three disc Martin Phipps set with music from N&amp;S, S&amp;S, and P3. Actually, I don&#8217;t know if all 5,137 members would purchase it, but a good portion of them would as well as a host of others. There are constantly people asking about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a little bit surprised with Sense and Sensibility 2008 music nominated for Emmy 2008. Asked at the time by fans whether there would be Soundtrack released, BBC answered that there would be no Soundtrack because of no interest, so many people do not even know who the author of the music is (Martin Phipps, who composed the music for “North and South” 2004 and “The Virgin Queen” 2005). I would prefer the music for Miss Austen Regrets 2008 whose Soundtrack was long ago released and is well known to the audience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a little bit surprised with Sense and Sensibility 2008 music nominated for Emmy 2008. Asked at the time by fans whether there would be Soundtrack released, BBC answered that there would be no Soundtrack because of no interest, so many people do not even know who the author of the music is (Martin Phipps, who composed the music for “North and South” 2004 and “The Virgin Queen” 2005). I would prefer the music for Miss Austen Regrets 2008 whose Soundtrack was long ago released and is well known to the audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia M.</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvia M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I never thought about it, but Lydia and Wickham will turn out like Mr. and Mrs. Bennet. Well, except Wickham turns to other pleasures rather then books.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never thought about it, but Lydia and Wickham will turn out like Mr. and Mrs. Bennet. Well, except Wickham turns to other pleasures rather then books.</p>
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		<title>By: Gillian Swart</title>
		<link>http://austenblog.com/2008/07/22/tuesday-open-thread-the-horrors-of-photoshop-edition/#comment-34246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gillian Swart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.austenblog.com/?p=2915#comment-34246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mags, I was NOT misled. I was shaking MY head at the uproar and pointing out that something similar COULD have happened (don&#039;t you do ever do things out of passion, or other motives, and then realize it&#039;s &#039;wrong&#039;?). Austen does allow Lydia to come back into the family fold, after all ...

And how was Elizabeth Bennett portrayed in that travesty 2005 version of &quot;P&amp;P&quot;? Running around like a loon, spinning barefoot on a swing in a muddy yard (England was much colder/damper back then), running around the countryside in her nightclothes ...

Movies are movies ... they need to make a buck. I neither particularly liked it nor hated it, but I found it somewhat interesting. My post was in response to the responses to the film, which I found to be pretty over the top, considering no one knows that much about Austen, except from stuff she wrote.

I find it highly suspicious that most of her letters were destroyed. Writers are strange beasts and sometimes engage in certain behaviors just so they can later write about it. Clearly she never went through with an elopement, but she may have considered one.

And I have read all of her books very closely (at least once a year): all of the (main) women end up with the man they love (wishful thinking?). Even poor Lydia, with love fading to indifference, ends up in pretty good shape, considering.

Sorry for the length of this comment! I love Jane Austen, I really, really do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mags, I was NOT misled. I was shaking MY head at the uproar and pointing out that something similar COULD have happened (don&#8217;t you do ever do things out of passion, or other motives, and then realize it&#8217;s &#8216;wrong&#8217;?). Austen does allow Lydia to come back into the family fold, after all &#8230;</p>
<p>And how was Elizabeth Bennett portrayed in that travesty 2005 version of &#8220;P&amp;P&#8221;? Running around like a loon, spinning barefoot on a swing in a muddy yard (England was much colder/damper back then), running around the countryside in her nightclothes &#8230;</p>
<p>Movies are movies &#8230; they need to make a buck. I neither particularly liked it nor hated it, but I found it somewhat interesting. My post was in response to the responses to the film, which I found to be pretty over the top, considering no one knows that much about Austen, except from stuff she wrote.</p>
<p>I find it highly suspicious that most of her letters were destroyed. Writers are strange beasts and sometimes engage in certain behaviors just so they can later write about it. Clearly she never went through with an elopement, but she may have considered one.</p>
<p>And I have read all of her books very closely (at least once a year): all of the (main) women end up with the man they love (wishful thinking?). Even poor Lydia, with love fading to indifference, ends up in pretty good shape, considering.</p>
<p>Sorry for the length of this comment! I love Jane Austen, I really, really do.</p>
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